Ep 48: The Tools Changed, the Relationships Didn't

Narrator: 00:00:06

Welcome to Aqua Talks where marketing meets bold game changing ideas.

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Larry Aldrich: 00:00:44

Today we're coming to you from Louisville, Kentucky live at the Etourism conference. We're going to be talking to some great DMOs today and some vendors, so stay tuned. Thanks for coming back to Aqua Talks.

Now we're talking with Danny Cohanpour. Danny, thanks for joining us here.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:00:59

Thank you for having me.

Larry Aldrich: 00:01:00

Thank you.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:01:01

I am excited to be here. I love doing live podcasts, the best kind of podcast. So I'm CEO of Trove Tourism Development Advisors. Trove Tourism for short.

We are a tourism marketing agency. We have two practices, destination marketing and destination development.

We exclusively work with tourism boards and DMOs, helping them with marketing, full scale marketing, creative trade, PR, and then we also work on the research and strategy side.

So, you know, our very niche client set, it's government, typically tourism boards, but we are really excited and we work with some great destinations.

Larry Aldrich: 00:01:35

Okay, so when you, when you work with the DMOs, when you work with the government of the, excuse me, the boards and all of that, is there anything that, that sticks out that you want to talk about, about what you're currently doing?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:01:48

Yeah, I mean, I would love to. I have found there to be more changes in the industry in the last six months than there ever have been before. And things are changing on a dime.

You know, just this morning there was a change in an AI product that we use that is new and we're, you know, we're trying to understand it. So I think in a lot of ways digital marketing is changing, but that's applying to tourism in a new and exciting way.

I think tourism has for long been a little bit of a slower industry on the uptake. I'm sure you've seen it. And it's not only the sales cycle slow for business development folks, but the absorption of technology is a little slower.

So bringing AI and generative AI to clients is a process that requires delicate care.

So we've been excited about that because all of our clients have been really excited about some of these new tools and techniques that we can use to target people better or ensure that our campaigns are as creative as possible.

I would say I'm most excited by that in what we've been able to do in the marketing side with some of these new tools that we have been using at Trove to better target travelers based on intent, based on sentiment, based on where they've been browsing or where they might browse and then also in terms of creative. So it's a really, really fun time to be in destination marketing because we've had more changes than ever.

Larry Aldrich: 00:03:06

Let's talk about your Jamaica campaign. What were some of your goals? How do you felt you achieved that? And, and, and talk about it a little bit.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:03:16

Oh, it was a dream destination because it's a destination that I visited so many times and I think it has for long. My perspective on it was it's all inclusive. You know, that's what it's there for.

And we worked with Jamaica in: 2024

And tourism is still, it's still great in that way. But we wanted to promote more of the community based enterprises and we call it community based tourism.

So it's enterprises or businesses like hotels, bed and breakfast, tour operators, where the money stays in community because it's community owned.

So you know, you'll have a community like St. Thomas where they are responsible for the tours and experiences in St. Thomas and you very rarely have that kind of setup anywhere else. So we're like, all right, let's bring that to international travel travelers.

So we took about 120 businesses, we brought them all online and then we developed a campaign first domestically and the campaign was called Yad Love, which means like love your home. And then internationally there's always more to Jamaica.

And we were able to bring the community based tourism product and experiences and things that you can only get in Jamaica to the world. We had a TripAdvisor co op that did really, really well.

We've been able to develop, you know, 700 plus short and long form video where we're interviewing, you know, Jamaicans about Jamaica and what makes it exciting and that really helped Jamaica kind of differentiate diversify. Especially, you know, there's a hurricane late last year. How to get past that in a way that will bring a little bit of longevity to your destination.

Larry Aldrich: 00:05:06

So what do you do to help destinations diversify like you just mentioned with Jamaica?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:05:11

Yeah, so we believe that every destination has the ability to look at new and exciting traveler segments that they're not necessarily looking at. And I think a lot of that is some research that we do.

So we think that any destination should have a traveler sentiment tool or some sort of process that they use to gauge traveler sentiment. The problem is surveying takes forever. It takes three to six months to get a survey.

So having really good intelligence on what your travelers are looking for in market can help you uncover new segments. So, for example, Japan. Japan is a client that has been, you know, we've had for a bit now. And Japan is a.

It doesn't have any issue with arrivals from the US Or Canada. But what some of the issue is is ensuring that they are staying longer, spending more.

So what we did, we started with the traveler sentiment study, looking at what Americans are saying about Japan, where they're going, where they want to go, where they've had issues with in the past. And then we turned that into a campaign, and that really informed the segments that we looked at.

So we looked at luxury, we looked at wellness travel, which they hadn't really explored in as much detail. Right. We looked at where luxury and wellness comes together.

We looked at, you know, adventure travel, rural and agritourism, all things that came out of our sentiment study.

So I would recommend any destination to get really, really good intelligence on what your travelers are looking for, because that will inform any marketing that you do.

Larry Aldrich: 00:06:39

What US Destinations do you have?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:06:42

So we work with a few on the marketing and the research side. Ithaca, New York was a wonderful client, and we actually work with Central New York as well. And then New York State. We work with Branson, Missouri.

We help them with research. We are, you know, we've been their research partner for a little bit now. We work with a few Canadian destinations as well.

It's interesting because we're based in New York. A lot of our clients have been international. A lot of our clients actually look to us to help them with the US Market.

The US And Canadian and Latin American market as well.

But, you know, in the last three years, we've had more interest from US Clients, especially destinations that are looking to, you know, try something else. Right. A lot of cities and states are focused on the drive markets, which are fine. We are helping them diversify a bit.

Look at other regions, look at other markets internationally, look at meetings, look at sports, all ways to diversify your product and get more value.

Larry Aldrich: 00:07:36

Do you see much of a difference between working with a US Destination and working with a international destination?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:07:43

Huge, very different priorities, but the bare bones are the same. You know, a DMO or in a lot of cases now a dmmo. They have a lot more, you know, they have a lot more structure than they've ever had before.

You know, there are teams that are doing very specific things and reporting is the same. A lot of the bare bones, the organizations are the same.

I found that there are things that US destinations have that international destinations can learn from in terms of how they're structured. I think the demos in the US do slightly better job in being able to have internal structure for like destination management. Right. Not just marketing.

And slowly international destinations are starting to do that as well and build in, you know, sustainable tourism people, management people as well. And there are things that international demos do better than US destinations. You know, being able to diversify quicker.

Some of the intelligence is a little bit better in terms of how they're looking at new markets. So I mean, the similar bones, but their priorities are often, are often different. Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:08:47

Excuse me, does Trove Tourism Development Advisors. Do you have all of the marketing verticals or do you work with other companies that may do like, for example, public relations?

You have a public relations relations?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:09:00

We do. We have a PR team. It's a small but mighty PR team that has great relationship in the market.

I mean, we're, we're constantly partnering a lot of times with tech vendors.

So we're looking at, you know, new and exciting ways to promote our destinations, whether it be in, you know, exciting video ads or, you know, we often partner with OTAs for the work that we do in getting, you know, other markets and new creative and exciting ways. We love partnering. I mean, it's a big factor of what we do, a lot of the capabilities we have now in house.

But we're constantly partnering, especially if, you know, the other agency has a different perspective on doing things. You know, we don't do a lot in sports and sports marketing or sports. So we've partnered in the past on that.

So, you know, we've grown in the last six or seven years. But the, the art spirit of partnering is still there and we love doing.

Larry Aldrich: 00:09:52

That in this industry now. You know, there's a lot of organizations out there.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:09:57

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:09:58

What are some of the challenges that you're seeing, you know, as a marketing agency working with destinations.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:10:06

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:10:07

Or trying to, you know, bring in new destinations or work with new destinations. What are some of the challenges, you're saying?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:10:14

it's not like what it was in: 2020

So what we've been trying to do is give monthly, like, survey insights to clients.

So DMOs are, you know, coming to us with, hey, we want to understand, like, this market, give us a sense of, you know, what the travelers are saying and thinking. We've been doing quarterly traveler behavioral surveys as well.

I think that's the One thing is DMOs have been a little bit behind in terms of getting to the root of what travelers are looking for, what goes into a destination choice, what is their perception of the destination. And we've been able to help destinations a bit with that. It requires, like, intelligence, intelligent tools. Right. And surveying. That's what I found.

ecause what it was in January: 2026

Larry Aldrich: 00:11:29

What are some of the key trends you're seeing in traveler behavior?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:11:33

Yeah, I would say that booking window is a lot longer than it ever has been. And we've been seeing that across markets and not even just like for, you know, local markets in Canada and Latin America.

People are booking with a lot more of a window. So it's about targeting people for that window as well. From exploration all the way to booking in a little bit more of a concerted effort.

We did a study with Adara in December, and we've been seeing that window of research expanding by several days, if not weeks. So that's something that I think came out of COVID but we've been seeing it more and more.

People are being more intentional with the decision of where to go.

And it's up to the DMO to get in front of them and really showcase what you have to offer, educate them about the destination, things that they don't know if you're running ads. We gave Jamaica as an example, but I can give another client, Malaysia, which we work with as an example.

Everybody knows of the capital city and the twin towers, the Petronas Towers.

If you're positioning that, people know that already, give a little bit of a different story, tell a story about a destination to make it stand out versus the same old, same old of what people can expect. And you'll only know that if you're able to get to the core of what the travelers are thinking and feeling about the destination.

Larry Aldrich: 00:12:56

When you're talking to a destination and you're in New York and they're in Malaysia.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:13:04

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:13:05

Before you start working with them, how do you answer that question? Can you service us that far away?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:13:11

Yeah, I mean we're pretty 24 7. You know, I don't know if that, you know, it's the same for every agency. We never take on a client that we can't support.

What I would say is a lot of our clients, like the international ones, they have an office here in the US and we typically will work with that office. It's less about the servicing because we could always do that.

It's more about they want to know that they can trust us and that we have relationships in the markets that they want to attract.

You know, so in the case of Malaysia, they loved what we were able to, you know, the relationships we were able to build with local travel trade and PR and the media connections we have. So they like that more than needing like a Kuala Lumpur based agency to support them.

So lately we've been finding that DMOs because one thing that I can't replicate is relationships. Yes. You know, it can't replicate relationship you have with a travel agent or a tour operator or, you know, whatever it is or a media house.

And if you're bringing that to the fold, that goes a lot further than, you know, any AI tool. Because Claude chatgpt, they can't replicate interpersonal relationships. And we've been trying to balance that a lot more and more.

But it's really true. And that's what destinations are looking for in agencies. Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:14:25

And it's you, you get that a lot even just in this country.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:14:28

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:14:29

You have a destination in California and you have a marketing company that's wants to work with that organization in Georgia.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:14:38

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:14:38

And one of the things that comes up, well, being that you're on the other side of the country, how can you execute or execute our campaigns properly?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:14:48

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:14:48

And obviously if you're doing it from New York to Malaysia.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:14:51

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:14:51

You're showing that that's possible. Not only it's possible, we could do it and be extremely successful.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:14:55

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:14:56

So answering that question, it's not about the distance.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:14:59

The distance.

Larry Aldrich: 00:15:00

The distance doesn't matter.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:15:02

It really doesn't matter. The only sticking point they often have is who's going to take content on a consistent basis and be able to take really good video and photo.

And we always flex and we find somebody local that work with our team in New York and whatever it is. But nowadays, because everything is virtual, what they really care about is those relationships that you have with the vendors and the partners.

And that's more true now than it ever has.

Larry Aldrich: 00:15:26

Do you look at this? Would you work with a smaller DMO if they were on the other side of the world?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:15:30

I mean, I would love to.

Larry Aldrich: 00:15:32

Do you think the budget would beef. Would affect you much when it comes to servicing? What if that budget's really small? Yeah, but they want you on site.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:15:43

We might have an issue being on site for a small budget. But I'll be honest, we're able to work, make anything work.

You know, nowadays in tourism, you know, we, we, I like to start with, you know, any pitch, we call it a pitch. Starts with okay, what are your real issues? What keeps you up at night? You know, what are your problems with these markets?

And then we kind of respond from there. A lot of our work is not retainer, it's more like ad hoc campaigns. We're trying to understand the core of an issue.

I would say it's 50, 50 now, retainer and you know, more ad hoc projects. But yes, smaller projects are fine. I mean I started with small destinations.

You know, we, we start small looking at emerging places that are really, really interesting. You know, we. One of our clients three and a half years ago was this destination in the UAE called Ras Al Khaimah. It is 45 minutes from Dubai.

And next year they're launching the first casino. They call it a gaming hub in the Middle east, right in the UAE.

And that was a very small destination four years ago and it's grown so much in the last four years and mice and meetings and sports and weddings. I love a small destination. I love an understated place because you can really help them look in the long term.

They're more interested in long term planning rather than short term.

So that's the coolest kind of project where you take a place that people virtually don't know anything about and you know, you're helping rebrand that and bring that to the whole.

Larry Aldrich: 00:17:08

Speaking of Japan.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:17:09

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:17:10

Now when we work most of what we've been working with here in the, in the U. S, let's say in Florida, we'll work with a county.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:17:18

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:17:18

We'll work with a municipality.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:17:20

Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:17:21

A city. You said the whole country of Japan. Is that how it's set up? So your work, basically everything they're doing in Japan, you're working with it.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:17:31

Yes. I mean they have like prefectures, like kind of like city and town based DMOs that handle that kind of work.

But interestingly The Japan National Tourism Office, they have a golden route which is Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto. And that is a lot of the business that comes from, you know, tour companies and digital, you know, digital footprint and OTAs.

They prescribed and said, we want you to look out elsewhere, we want you to identify 10 other places that are more rural and let's work to sell those. Right.

So it was almost like we took a subset of Japan and, and that made a little bit more digestible so we could really market and sell that area and you know, for those country level or state level tourism organizations in tat, like working with your local partners too. So they have like city level DMOs.

Actually, a lot of the content that we receive, like photo and video came from the cities and states and prefectures. So yeah, I mean, they, they handle all of Japan, but they do so in kind of like a very measured way. Typical for the Japanese people.

A little bit strategic and measured in terms of how they do things.

Larry Aldrich: 00:18:36

Have you been to a tourism conference?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:18:38

Yeah, I come every year. I love this conference. Okay. It's my first year coming with anybody else. Typically I come by myself.

Larry Aldrich: 00:18:43

So you were in Vegas last year?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:18:44

I was in Vegas. I much prefer this than Vegas.

Larry Aldrich: 00:18:48

Really?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:18:48

I would say, why is that? You like bourbon? I like bourbon, I like Kentucky.

And I would say I go to Vegas so much that it's like when I go for Etourism, it doesn't feel like an event. This is like an event you can walk around. I've never been here. Right. So you can go explore, meet people, see more of the town.

Like when you go to Vegas, you're on the strip. Yeah, it's all right. But there's more to kind of.

And I think the fact that it's a convention center, you know, everything is around here I'm excited about. Yeah.

Larry Aldrich: 00:19:16

What do you look to like to try to get out of Etourism?

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:19:19

Every year I've been taking a lot of notes on AI tools that people are using that we're not using because there are several out there.

I take a lot of notes on metrics that other destinations have hit that we either haven't hit or we have hidden a certain way that I can bring back to the team. So I'm here to absorb, pick up as much as possible, meet new, exciting destinations, and that's why we're here. I mean, I love the conference.

Ashley is like a friend of mine, the salesperson, and I'm excited to kind of see what we can get out of it.

Larry Aldrich: 00:19:48

Yeah, I'm Hearing that there's a really unique tool that's about to come out and it's going to be really helpful for destinations, agencies. And not only can it be used in tourism and destination, it can be used federal contracts, anything out there.

So we'll definitely keep you up to date when that.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:20:06

I mean I'm excited. I know you guys have something coming up tomorrow. I hope to hear a little bit about more of what you.

Larry Aldrich: 00:20:10

Yeah, we have a really cool tool coming out. It's going to be extremely helpful.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:20:15

Excited about.

Larry Aldrich: 00:20:15

We've been putting a lot of work into that. So definitely talk more about that.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:20:20

I mean that I come here to learn as much from the agencies as I do from the destination. So I mean I'm all ears. I'm excited about it. So we'll have, we'll have your bio.

Larry Aldrich: 00:20:29

And your links on aquatacs.com where would you like to have people go? Also to find out more about.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:20:35

Sure. Trovetourism.com we do quarterly research surveys like I mentioned. We have a lot of, you know, white papers that come out.

We do monthly webinars called the Trove Destination Dispatch. We have a webinar on Thursday about meetings and events and what destinations can do to get ahead in front of planners.

So you know, on our website is everything. And you can sign up for our newsletter as well.

Larry Aldrich: 00:20:58

Thank you. Thanks for being with us.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:20:59

Thank you very much.

Larry Aldrich: 00:20:59

Look forward to talking to you.

Daniel Cohanpour: 00:21:01

Great conversation.

Larry Aldrich: 00:21:01

Thank you.

Narrator: 00:21:06

You've been listening to aquatalks where marketing innovation takes center stage with bold ideas and actionable insights. Ready to take your strategies to the next level.

Visit aquatacs.com to book your free consultation and explore resources that empower you to thrive in today's fast paced marketing world. Until next time, stay bold, stay inspired, stay imaginative.